LOved the poem and the reader. Never heard Mr Agard before. I confess to pedantry in parts, as in 'I was sat' to which I confess an involuntary bristle- suggestive of the cat, a primer- and a simplicity of mind. But the West Indian vernacular is wonderfully creative as well as delightfully provocative. Mr Oxford Don is sinking everyday now!
I used to bristle at 'I was day's too, but these days I am so chilled I'm like a block of ice. I regard it as just another way of using our beautiful language 😁
I've always worn two hats on this one: the 'language has to represent the lexicon of the day - it needs to evolve, to grow, to change' hat, and the 'get it RIGHT, people!' hat.
My hat-wearing preference for any given day is directly related both to my consumption of caffeine and the side of the bed I got out on that morning.
LOL. I suppose the 'correct' answer is both. In an ideal world, people should feel free to write and speak in the way they know and love and that fits in with their peer group. But in other contexts they should be able to speak/write in the way the target audience expects (and respects). Let's put it this way: if I went to my bank manager to discuss an overdraft, and he or she was speaking in patois so that I could hardly understand what they were saying, I'd ask to speak to someone else because finance is too important for me to act based on something I THOUGHT I understood but hadn't. Wojja think?
You're right: I'd say both are correct. And our choice of hat - or language - is down to a number of factors: context, culture, communicative competence. And all of the other things we'd debate long, hard and drunk in the college bar after lectures....! It's a fascinating topic, Terry, and I've really enjoyed your take on it. Thank you for a great post!
Half rhyme, also called near rhyme, slant rhyme, or oblique rhyme, in prosody - two words that have only their final consonant sounds and no preceding vowel or consonant sounds in common (such as stopped and wept, or parable and shell). Does that fit?!
Bravo! I’ve been considering this very subject as of late because I live in the Southern U.S. where we speak an entirely different version of English!🤣
We have all flavor of "Southern" down here depending on location and culture. My grandparents were all raised as "country folk" in rural Mississippi, but there are differences even in the way they speak. My husband's grandparents are all Cajun French, so he has a different way of pronouncing certain words. I was raised in Mississippi and Arkansas, but when I went to college most of my friends were international students--so my twangy accent eventually morphed into something my mother was appalled to hear. :) And now we live in a community where most of our friends are Black, and that culture has even more variations in pronunciations. We are one big mash-up!
I did wonder whether my writing of the "accent of the southern USA" was an accurate description; I thought perhaps the accents of the different parts of the south would differ from each other.
Your mother being appalled is something that happens here as well, in two directions: if a working class person starts speaking with a posh accent from being in close contact with posh people, or if a person with a cut glass English accent starts speaking with a cockney accent (eg dropping the 'h' from words like him and her. Half the time it's put on anyway, not gradually morphed like yours.
I find in the UK we have all different accents and dialects, some of which are incomprehensible - well, to me at any rate.
Your local community sounds great. I used to work in an area of London called Newham, which was, at that time at least, the most deprived area in the country. There's an open market there, and walking around that and the wider environs was like being in the United Nations: every colour and creed you can imagine. I loved it.
We certainly have the equivalent to your posh vs cockney accents--and usually those who are speaking "posh Southern" are simply "putting on airs," as we say.
In Googling, I see that the non-rhotic accent (dropping the "r," where "better" becomes "bettuh") is categorized as Coastal/Lowland Southern English. This is that "genteel" dialect one might hear in movies like Gone with the Wind. Quite posh, and we have several people--especially those whose families have been a part of this community for hundreds of years--who speak like that. I often wonder how they speak when they're home talking to their dog.
And then you have the Mountain Southern, which includes the "r" and drops the "h" at the beginning of some words. This is probably more like England's cockney accent.
But those two don't cover the Cajun, Texan, or Black Southern accents. Now you've got me researching this topic. Perhaps there'll be a post on it one day.
As for my community, every day I learn something new from my neighbors. It's beautiful!
It’s a half rhyme I believe - the technical term. Heaven help us from these narrow minded arbiters of taste and their narrow minded views concerning what befits an edumacashun. G
For a different ( but not dissimilar poet, native to these isles, try this for a-few-years-back nostalgia!
Seamus ORourke We want a hard border. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93RI7Z3HhZk&t=16s
😂 brilliant! Thank you for that.
Pleasure. I listen to it occasionally to regain some sanity!
LOved the poem and the reader. Never heard Mr Agard before. I confess to pedantry in parts, as in 'I was sat' to which I confess an involuntary bristle- suggestive of the cat, a primer- and a simplicity of mind. But the West Indian vernacular is wonderfully creative as well as delightfully provocative. Mr Oxford Don is sinking everyday now!
I used to bristle at 'I was day's too, but these days I am so chilled I'm like a block of ice. I regard it as just another way of using our beautiful language 😁
I've always worn two hats on this one: the 'language has to represent the lexicon of the day - it needs to evolve, to grow, to change' hat, and the 'get it RIGHT, people!' hat.
My hat-wearing preference for any given day is directly related both to my consumption of caffeine and the side of the bed I got out on that morning.
LOL. I suppose the 'correct' answer is both. In an ideal world, people should feel free to write and speak in the way they know and love and that fits in with their peer group. But in other contexts they should be able to speak/write in the way the target audience expects (and respects). Let's put it this way: if I went to my bank manager to discuss an overdraft, and he or she was speaking in patois so that I could hardly understand what they were saying, I'd ask to speak to someone else because finance is too important for me to act based on something I THOUGHT I understood but hadn't. Wojja think?
You're right: I'd say both are correct. And our choice of hat - or language - is down to a number of factors: context, culture, communicative competence. And all of the other things we'd debate long, hard and drunk in the college bar after lectures....! It's a fascinating topic, Terry, and I've really enjoyed your take on it. Thank you for a great post!
Yeah, no worries, cheers, mate, good on yer, nice one. Erm, sorry, I meant: Thanks very much, I think you're absolutely right, Rebecca.
Half rhyme, also called near rhyme, slant rhyme, or oblique rhyme, in prosody - two words that have only their final consonant sounds and no preceding vowel or consonant sounds in common (such as stopped and wept, or parable and shell). Does that fit?!
Yay, half rhyme rings a bell. I think that's what an English tutor of mine called this sort of thing. Thank you😎
:-)
Bravo! I’ve been considering this very subject as of late because I live in the Southern U.S. where we speak an entirely different version of English!🤣
🤓 I love the accent of the southern USA. I spent a great week in Atlanta once. But I presume the accent there is different from Mississippi?
We have all flavor of "Southern" down here depending on location and culture. My grandparents were all raised as "country folk" in rural Mississippi, but there are differences even in the way they speak. My husband's grandparents are all Cajun French, so he has a different way of pronouncing certain words. I was raised in Mississippi and Arkansas, but when I went to college most of my friends were international students--so my twangy accent eventually morphed into something my mother was appalled to hear. :) And now we live in a community where most of our friends are Black, and that culture has even more variations in pronunciations. We are one big mash-up!
I did wonder whether my writing of the "accent of the southern USA" was an accurate description; I thought perhaps the accents of the different parts of the south would differ from each other.
Your mother being appalled is something that happens here as well, in two directions: if a working class person starts speaking with a posh accent from being in close contact with posh people, or if a person with a cut glass English accent starts speaking with a cockney accent (eg dropping the 'h' from words like him and her. Half the time it's put on anyway, not gradually morphed like yours.
I find in the UK we have all different accents and dialects, some of which are incomprehensible - well, to me at any rate.
Your local community sounds great. I used to work in an area of London called Newham, which was, at that time at least, the most deprived area in the country. There's an open market there, and walking around that and the wider environs was like being in the United Nations: every colour and creed you can imagine. I loved it.
We certainly have the equivalent to your posh vs cockney accents--and usually those who are speaking "posh Southern" are simply "putting on airs," as we say.
In Googling, I see that the non-rhotic accent (dropping the "r," where "better" becomes "bettuh") is categorized as Coastal/Lowland Southern English. This is that "genteel" dialect one might hear in movies like Gone with the Wind. Quite posh, and we have several people--especially those whose families have been a part of this community for hundreds of years--who speak like that. I often wonder how they speak when they're home talking to their dog.
And then you have the Mountain Southern, which includes the "r" and drops the "h" at the beginning of some words. This is probably more like England's cockney accent.
But those two don't cover the Cajun, Texan, or Black Southern accents. Now you've got me researching this topic. Perhaps there'll be a post on it one day.
As for my community, every day I learn something new from my neighbors. It's beautiful!
It’s a half rhyme I believe - the technical term. Heaven help us from these narrow minded arbiters of taste and their narrow minded views concerning what befits an edumacashun. G
Apparently there is no way to edit the typo ‘G’ so do excuse me.
Lovely thanks Terry - I shall enjoy reading this later.
Man, what a poem and what a funny and powerful delivery!
Thanks, Oleg. Brilliant, isn't it? :-)