This was so good, Terry. Your observations and advice remind me of a newspaper editor I worked for in a Massachusetts town who didn't allow adjectives and adverbs in the human interest stories I wrote, saying it would show bias. 5 stars for you.
It was a fantastic job, and I learned to ask this question that has served me well in every job and relationship since then, "What's that like for you?" The answers put many things in perspective.
Wonderful read, Terry. Great thoughts and advice, and thoughts on skirting advice so long as one has some idea of what one's doing.
I do appreciate writing doing something clever, so long as it serves the actual writing and story and isn't just doing so for the sake of being clever. Nabokov is an excellent example. (And ooh, I feel special for having that kiss with Brae featured! Thank you.)
TOTP’s psychedelic phase is a terrific analogy for excessive ad-word use. Just like special effects, too many ad-words can obscure rather than clarify, as well as distract and just clutter things up.
These special effects weren’t unique to TOTP. The famous German show Beat-Club often did that too. For anyone reading who isn’t clear on what Terry means, here are two Beat-Club clips of the American female rock band Fanny. The first is as broadcast, the second is the original taping footage. Play a few seconds of both and see which you prefer: the first clip, with its zebra stripes and jittery halos, or the second clip, with its clean presentation. The first is your writing on ad-words, the second with the unneeded words stripped away.
Thanks, Frank.Brilliant illustrations of the point I was making. Yes, I remember Beat Club. All those effects just detract from the experience in my opinion. It was like someone just got their hands on a box of gixmos and nobody had the sense or the presence of mind to tell them to calm down.
A fascinating post, Terry - I've learned a great deal, as always! You should teach this stuff...... oh, hang on.....! 😉
This is the perfect adjunct to everything I learned with you on your course last Saturday - thank you so much! (And speaking of ad-JUNC-ts - well, I'm not going to junk ALL of my adjectives, but I shall be reminding myself that it is not only in the kitchen that seasoning should be sprinkled sparingly. 😁
😀 Thanks, Rebecca. Yes, I wrote it as a sort of follow-on from the course. Glad you recognised my fiemndish ploy. Great analogy: kitchen and seasoning. Thanks!
‘For example, we’re told not to use adjectives or adverbs if we can avoid doing so.’ We are? And then I read on.
It’s taken me all this time to realise that you’re writing for writers, not readers! That actually explains a lot….
I’ll probably sheepishly unsubscribe when my current subscription comes to an end. It’s been interesting and educational, but I’m not a writer and all these rules you’ve talked of have never entered my orbit previously. I feel a bit dopey, but such is life. Interesting as usual. Thanks.
Thanks for your honesty, Beth. The experiments in style posts are mainly for readers, as are my start the week posts, letters to Rebecca and various ad hoc posts. I occasionally write mainly for writers, as with this post you've commented on. I should have flagged it as such at the start, an omission I apologise for.
Very enlightening, Terry. Damn! So now do I have to go back to all my stories and start culling out my precious adjectives and adverbs? But I know so many of them! What will I do with all this unwanted vocabulary??
Put them all into one story.That's what George Perec did. He wrote a story (A Void) that didn't have any E's. Then he wrote Les Revenentes in which the ONLY vowel was E. The joke was that Perec had swept up all the E's he'd discarded from A Void and thought he'd make another story with them rather than waste them!🤣
Follow the rules to break the rules. I mean, isn't that what literature does? We create a world or recreate this one with millions of physical, legal, linguistic, moral, social, etc., etc., rules, most of them conventional (okay, some maybe necessary, let's be diplomatic). In the end, we all lie, we all want to be free of norms. We say literal things that mean the opposite, we make up excuses to save face or to blame others for our faults. Players, gamblers, and storytellers, what a crew, humans... Every life is a tricky 'experiment in style' I guess.
This is such an interesting point, Rafa. I think the way in which words are used - by ourselves and by others; published or not - shows us a great deal. I guess we're all breaking rules - even subconsciously - in order to get on in the world. Fascinating!
I've been reading recently about fizzy drinks that have so much caffeine and sugar in them that they are giving some people cardiac arrests. I assumed that Zappa might be one of them!
This was so good, Terry. Your observations and advice remind me of a newspaper editor I worked for in a Massachusetts town who didn't allow adjectives and adverbs in the human interest stories I wrote, saying it would show bias. 5 stars for you.
Thanks, Mary. I didn't know you'd worked as a writer. Very interesting position on the part of that editor.
It was a fantastic job, and I learned to ask this question that has served me well in every job and relationship since then, "What's that like for you?" The answers put many things in perspective.
Wonderful read, Terry. Great thoughts and advice, and thoughts on skirting advice so long as one has some idea of what one's doing.
I do appreciate writing doing something clever, so long as it serves the actual writing and story and isn't just doing so for the sake of being clever. Nabokov is an excellent example. (And ooh, I feel special for having that kiss with Brae featured! Thank you.)
TOTP’s psychedelic phase is a terrific analogy for excessive ad-word use. Just like special effects, too many ad-words can obscure rather than clarify, as well as distract and just clutter things up.
These special effects weren’t unique to TOTP. The famous German show Beat-Club often did that too. For anyone reading who isn’t clear on what Terry means, here are two Beat-Club clips of the American female rock band Fanny. The first is as broadcast, the second is the original taping footage. Play a few seconds of both and see which you prefer: the first clip, with its zebra stripes and jittery halos, or the second clip, with its clean presentation. The first is your writing on ad-words, the second with the unneeded words stripped away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE3uwtegPEY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SftgE1vfwbk
Thanks, Frank.Brilliant illustrations of the point I was making. Yes, I remember Beat Club. All those effects just detract from the experience in my opinion. It was like someone just got their hands on a box of gixmos and nobody had the sense or the presence of mind to tell them to calm down.
A fascinating post, Terry - I've learned a great deal, as always! You should teach this stuff...... oh, hang on.....! 😉
This is the perfect adjunct to everything I learned with you on your course last Saturday - thank you so much! (And speaking of ad-JUNC-ts - well, I'm not going to junk ALL of my adjectives, but I shall be reminding myself that it is not only in the kitchen that seasoning should be sprinkled sparingly. 😁
😀 Thanks, Rebecca. Yes, I wrote it as a sort of follow-on from the course. Glad you recognised my fiemndish ploy. Great analogy: kitchen and seasoning. Thanks!
🧂😁
🤣
I fucking love adverbs!!!
Try saying that again, without an adverb.
I agree, Terry; adjectives, adverbs, ( and I'll add exclamation marks) are to be used sparingly*.
And. Whatever. This. Is.=Never.
*Yes adverb. I know, I know.
Uh oh. I think I might have done that once... :-\ Never. Again.
😂. Well, we can't avoid them altogether, and actually I don't even think we should.
‘For example, we’re told not to use adjectives or adverbs if we can avoid doing so.’ We are? And then I read on.
It’s taken me all this time to realise that you’re writing for writers, not readers! That actually explains a lot….
I’ll probably sheepishly unsubscribe when my current subscription comes to an end. It’s been interesting and educational, but I’m not a writer and all these rules you’ve talked of have never entered my orbit previously. I feel a bit dopey, but such is life. Interesting as usual. Thanks.
Thanks for your honesty, Beth. The experiments in style posts are mainly for readers, as are my start the week posts, letters to Rebecca and various ad hoc posts. I occasionally write mainly for writers, as with this post you've commented on. I should have flagged it as such at the start, an omission I apologise for.
Very enlightening, Terry. Damn! So now do I have to go back to all my stories and start culling out my precious adjectives and adverbs? But I know so many of them! What will I do with all this unwanted vocabulary??
Don't change a thiiiiiiiiiing, Sharron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Too many "i"'s, and too many exclamation marks. Please sort yourself out, Rebecca.
I blame the teacher....... 🙄
No! My course was about LEAVING OUT vowels, not repeating then endlessly. Go to the back of the class.
🤣
Put them all into one story.That's what George Perec did. He wrote a story (A Void) that didn't have any E's. Then he wrote Les Revenentes in which the ONLY vowel was E. The joke was that Perec had swept up all the E's he'd discarded from A Void and thought he'd make another story with them rather than waste them!🤣
To quote a line you used on your course, Terry: 'this is bonkers'! 🤪
Did I really use that line? Do you have proof? Is there a recording, or a witness? No? I rest my case.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes, on paper.
Yes - five individuals with whom I had no prior connection.
🫣 I am undone. Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow creeps in this petty pace etc
😁
That sounds like something YOU would do. I will trade you all my EXCELLENT adjectives and adverbs for a few x-rated nouns and verbs. Deal?
🤣
🤣
Follow the rules to break the rules. I mean, isn't that what literature does? We create a world or recreate this one with millions of physical, legal, linguistic, moral, social, etc., etc., rules, most of them conventional (okay, some maybe necessary, let's be diplomatic). In the end, we all lie, we all want to be free of norms. We say literal things that mean the opposite, we make up excuses to save face or to blame others for our faults. Players, gamblers, and storytellers, what a crew, humans... Every life is a tricky 'experiment in style' I guess.
This is such an interesting point, Rafa. I think the way in which words are used - by ourselves and by others; published or not - shows us a great deal. I guess we're all breaking rules - even subconsciously - in order to get on in the world. Fascinating!
Hmm, possibly, Rafa. But I was really talking about purposefully breaking literary rules, so I'm not convinced the two things are the same!
Sorry, too much Zappa lately...
😂. I haven't listened to him for ages. Or do you mean some high octane drink I've not heard of?
If you want a brainstormer, he is the perfect one. Regarding drink names, what a fantastic idea! 😅
I've been reading recently about fizzy drinks that have so much caffeine and sugar in them that they are giving some people cardiac arrests. I assumed that Zappa might be one of them!