"Persiflage" 🥰 Oulipo is the gift that keeps on giving. I love this particular wrinkle, Terry, it's rather mind-bending what a line break can do - must try out this experiment for myself.
Well, I've never been sure what poetry actually IS given post-modernism, concrete poetry, etc. While I admire the formal and very old school forms, my biggest influence was buying the Penguin Book Of Surrealist Poetry in Harlow (of all places) when I was still at school. I loved the freedom of words looking great and all over the place on the page, and making a shape and form of them that sometimes - but not always - had to follow the meaning of the words. Outside any idea of poetry, the best example I've ever seen on this is in House Of Leaves, where the lines of story follow the shape of the tunnels under the house as the protagonists explore. Pretentious? Hell yeah, but it looks good so I don't care. I liked this, and referring to one of the notes on here what exactly IS great poetry anyway> Because I don't know (not that bothered to be honest).
But I did ask my friend Percy Flange, the well-known critic, and he said 'Somnambulance leads to neccessity of ambulance'. Precisely.
Your mate Percy Flange sounds a lot like my mate Percy Flage! I think that Harlow book sounds rather niche, but does not go far enough. I am working on a book of concerte poetry that is centred solely on my street. Regarding poetry in shapes, I've always liked that as well. I think it can be really clever. And as you say: "Pretentious? Hell yeah, but it looks good so I don't care." Thanks, Drew 😊
I like how it changes the pacing, how certain words become more obvious. Any idea why they called it bandit poetry (or style)? Perhaps because it robs the original text of its possessions, or because it steals the poetry away from the poem? :)
Thanks, Elizabeth. That's very perceptive of you. I checked, and the explanation is that it steals the poetry from the prose. I agree with you about how it changes the pacing, and makes certain words/phrases more obvious. Glad you liked it!
I have been away from Experiments for awhile so was happy to come back and see this one because I love it. This is a great demonstration of the impact of spacing and line length. Thanks Terry.
Thanks, Donna. Yes, that's what I think as well. I wasn't sure about it in advance, but n ow I think, like Maurice, that it has a certain 'Je ne sais quois'!
My sense is that this piece is not a poem, you have done a remarkable exercise in making it look poem-like and feel a bit too much like a poem. Great exercise, great practice, break into new forms, but, in my humble opinion, not great poetry.
Excellent exercise, Mr. Terryman! You asked for opinions, so here is mine. In general, I find prose written with the odd line breaks of poetry, is harder to follow. And something about it seems "affected" or "pretentious to me. (Though, I admit I have done it, myself, on short 50-word pieces.) A few writers I subscribe to take perfectly lovely prose and stretch it all out of shape with inexplicable line breaks down the page. And I find myself asking, "Why?" (Even Sherman Alexie is prone to it, and his work is otherwise genius!) Just my opinion. As for the AI generated art: No. In your photo this man seems to have too many fingers on his left hand. And his vest is buttoned incorrectly for a man, left over right. AI is artificial, yes, and not often intelligent. Also, just my opinion, my friend.
Thanks, Sharron. Honesty is always appreciated! Regarding the AI art, I hadn't noticed! Regarding line breaks, I'm not sure I agree with you. I was thinking, in a different context, of Emily Dickinson. One of the earliest collections of her poetry omitted all the dashes, and the result was a rather anodyne reading experience. Somehow the dashes are an essential part of the poems. I think the line breaks and spacing, and the relative isolation of certain words or phrases, changes the pacing, and highlights particular aspects. So, although I agree with you that it could come across as affected, I don't think it necessarily is in all cases.
Yes. Good points. Certainly not all cases. I often find myself using dashes and ellipses to indicate pauses or emphasis or suspense, sometimes in place of a comma. I am sure it is not always grammatically "correct", but it seems to serve my purpose in both prose and poetry. Golly! I miss having someone to discuss writing with -- the grammar, the word choice, the breaking with convention! No one around here gives a damn. I am new to fiction writing ( 3 years). And I have to say it is delightfully different from all the academic papers, teaching journal articles and texts I wrote and published over the years. So much less constricted. So much more fun.
It's fascinating to discuss such things. You are very accomplished at writing fiction. I like correct grammar, but not if it kills the the thing. I liken it to music. If I played the tunes I'm learning strictly according to the music, I'd sould like I was playing a shopping List. Regarding discussion, aren't there online courses you could do? I bet you'd love some of the ones at citylit.ac.uk. if they're late in the evening for us in the UK, they'd be between 5 and 8 hours earlier for you.
Certainly adds a certain Je ne sais quoi, although I ain't quite certain how else to describe it.... yet. Yet certainly encourages one to boldly go embrace adventure, but that's what you always do do for we readers.... literally, cheers my friend, Maurice
Wow, really interesting how this changes the feel, Terry.
Why is it called a "bandit" poem? What's the etymology here?
Thanks, Nathan. Yes, interesting isn't it. Apparently it's because the technique is said to steal the poetry from the prose.
Ahhh, I see. That’s cool. I like that.
🙂
"Persiflage" 🥰 Oulipo is the gift that keeps on giving. I love this particular wrinkle, Terry, it's rather mind-bending what a line break can do - must try out this experiment for myself.
Interesting how the prose becomes a poem by just hitting return in strategic places.
I agree, Carissa. Perhaps I should write a different version to see how it compares.
Well, I've never been sure what poetry actually IS given post-modernism, concrete poetry, etc. While I admire the formal and very old school forms, my biggest influence was buying the Penguin Book Of Surrealist Poetry in Harlow (of all places) when I was still at school. I loved the freedom of words looking great and all over the place on the page, and making a shape and form of them that sometimes - but not always - had to follow the meaning of the words. Outside any idea of poetry, the best example I've ever seen on this is in House Of Leaves, where the lines of story follow the shape of the tunnels under the house as the protagonists explore. Pretentious? Hell yeah, but it looks good so I don't care. I liked this, and referring to one of the notes on here what exactly IS great poetry anyway> Because I don't know (not that bothered to be honest).
But I did ask my friend Percy Flange, the well-known critic, and he said 'Somnambulance leads to neccessity of ambulance'. Precisely.
Your mate Percy Flange sounds a lot like my mate Percy Flage! I think that Harlow book sounds rather niche, but does not go far enough. I am working on a book of concerte poetry that is centred solely on my street. Regarding poetry in shapes, I've always liked that as well. I think it can be really clever. And as you say: "Pretentious? Hell yeah, but it looks good so I don't care." Thanks, Drew 😊
I like how it changes the pacing, how certain words become more obvious. Any idea why they called it bandit poetry (or style)? Perhaps because it robs the original text of its possessions, or because it steals the poetry away from the poem? :)
Thanks, Elizabeth. That's very perceptive of you. I checked, and the explanation is that it steals the poetry from the prose. I agree with you about how it changes the pacing, and makes certain words/phrases more obvious. Glad you liked it!
I have been away from Experiments for awhile so was happy to come back and see this one because I love it. This is a great demonstration of the impact of spacing and line length. Thanks Terry.
Thanks, Donna. Yes, that's what I think as well. I wasn't sure about it in advance, but n ow I think, like Maurice, that it has a certain 'Je ne sais quois'!
My sense is that this piece is not a poem, you have done a remarkable exercise in making it look poem-like and feel a bit too much like a poem. Great exercise, great practice, break into new forms, but, in my humble opinion, not great poetry.
I think I'd agree with you to an extent, but -- not even a good prose poem? 😃
Excellent exercise, Mr. Terryman! You asked for opinions, so here is mine. In general, I find prose written with the odd line breaks of poetry, is harder to follow. And something about it seems "affected" or "pretentious to me. (Though, I admit I have done it, myself, on short 50-word pieces.) A few writers I subscribe to take perfectly lovely prose and stretch it all out of shape with inexplicable line breaks down the page. And I find myself asking, "Why?" (Even Sherman Alexie is prone to it, and his work is otherwise genius!) Just my opinion. As for the AI generated art: No. In your photo this man seems to have too many fingers on his left hand. And his vest is buttoned incorrectly for a man, left over right. AI is artificial, yes, and not often intelligent. Also, just my opinion, my friend.
Thanks, Sharron. Honesty is always appreciated! Regarding the AI art, I hadn't noticed! Regarding line breaks, I'm not sure I agree with you. I was thinking, in a different context, of Emily Dickinson. One of the earliest collections of her poetry omitted all the dashes, and the result was a rather anodyne reading experience. Somehow the dashes are an essential part of the poems. I think the line breaks and spacing, and the relative isolation of certain words or phrases, changes the pacing, and highlights particular aspects. So, although I agree with you that it could come across as affected, I don't think it necessarily is in all cases.
Yes. Good points. Certainly not all cases. I often find myself using dashes and ellipses to indicate pauses or emphasis or suspense, sometimes in place of a comma. I am sure it is not always grammatically "correct", but it seems to serve my purpose in both prose and poetry. Golly! I miss having someone to discuss writing with -- the grammar, the word choice, the breaking with convention! No one around here gives a damn. I am new to fiction writing ( 3 years). And I have to say it is delightfully different from all the academic papers, teaching journal articles and texts I wrote and published over the years. So much less constricted. So much more fun.
It's fascinating to discuss such things. You are very accomplished at writing fiction. I like correct grammar, but not if it kills the the thing. I liken it to music. If I played the tunes I'm learning strictly according to the music, I'd sould like I was playing a shopping List. Regarding discussion, aren't there online courses you could do? I bet you'd love some of the ones at citylit.ac.uk. if they're late in the evening for us in the UK, they'd be between 5 and 8 hours earlier for you.
Certainly adds a certain Je ne sais quoi, although I ain't quite certain how else to describe it.... yet. Yet certainly encourages one to boldly go embrace adventure, but that's what you always do do for we readers.... literally, cheers my friend, Maurice
Thanks Maurice 😊 Yes, some of the experiments are a bit ‘iffy’. I was interested to see how people might react to this one.
Life is experimental..... I'll look back in a few days to check for further comments
They are very interesting. 😃